Schulcast Episode 3: Interview mit Herrn Krichvesky

00:00:00: [Music]

00:00:10: Also hello hello and herzlich willkommen zum Schulkast. Today we are going to be

00:00:14: interviewing a preview a biology teacher Hacker Chevsky who has recently

00:00:20: departed from from that topic in the pursuit of the digitalization of the

00:00:25: school. So Hacker Chevsky before we start would you like to maybe give sort of an

00:00:29: overview of what digitalization of the school kind of means for it?

00:00:34: Yeah it's really tough to do that just in a few sentences because

00:00:40: it's a new position. It's something that was recognized in Germany just in the

00:00:46: last years that this is something that is needed at schools and it's been kind

00:00:52: of a vacant position for the last few years. We've just been kind of I guess

00:00:56: really going with the flow as a school and we have a great IT department and

00:01:00: just other coordinators and teachers at the school that have been bringing

00:01:05: digitalization into the school but we don't really have a concept. We don't

00:01:10: have a vision for the future and that was something that was seen as needed

00:01:15: and that's why they created the position. Was this sort of more some amount was

00:01:21: driven by you? Did you sort of pursue this or was this more just a role given

00:01:24: to you specifically? It's also hard to say. I made it clear when I started here

00:01:32: at the school about a year and a half ago that I was very interested in I

00:01:37: guess all things digitalization. At my last school I helped to build up a

00:01:41: makerspace. I put on like a school hackathon for 1,400 students and just

00:01:50: kind of helped to to progress digitalization and so it was just one of

00:01:56: those things that has always been like a hobby of mine since getting my first

00:01:59: Nintendo when I was six years old and that just kind of you know just playing

00:02:04: with audio, video, stuff, you know any new software that's coming out, things

00:02:10: like that and so that's how I got kind of involved on a school level and then

00:02:15: here at the DSJ. I didn't really know in which direction it was going to go, how

00:02:19: long they need me as a biology teacher so I wasn't expecting it at all. It wasn't

00:02:23: necessarily my idea. The school knew that it's kind of an area we need to start to

00:02:29: focus on more. So now that we know sort of like how your plan for it, what sort of

00:02:36: how do you wish to see like digitalization take effect in our school?

00:02:40: Like what sort of results do you expect to see? So I think it's really

00:02:46: important that digitalization isn't just focused on for the sake of

00:02:52: digitalization. It needs to kind of serve a greater purpose, right?

00:02:59: And the purpose we have at this school is education and providing great

00:03:05: education we really focus on maximizing the potential of our students

00:03:10: and when they leave this school that we can say, "All right, that's you know

00:03:15: that's the best we could get out of these students." So that's

00:03:20: the optimal situation and nowadays we are seeing that digitalization plays a

00:03:26: few different roles. So it can help a school be more efficient and effective on

00:03:32: an administrative level, management level, but we can also take it into the

00:03:38: classroom as well so that learning just I guess happens. It can be more fun

00:03:44: but it can also be more effective and it can just also help I guess in like what

00:03:51: we call making students future fit is a word that's used sometimes. It doesn't

00:03:58: just go for students, it goes for teachers as well, maybe it goes for other

00:04:01: you know parts of our staff, even parents and so just kind of focusing on

00:04:06: all of these different aspects, all of these different stakeholders and in the

00:04:10: end whatever solutions we implement in the end it needs to end up benefiting

00:04:15: the students in their learning and their education.

00:04:20: What sort of tools would you do you envision being as a part of this

00:04:25: digitalization? I know that for example AI is a term that's thrown around a lot

00:04:30: recently in recent times. Would that for example be something you'd integrate or

00:04:34: do you have something else in mind? Yeah that's definitely part of it. Let me

00:04:39: start with like the boring stuff. The boring stuff those are I guess that's

00:04:44: the software and the structures we already have implemented at this school.

00:04:47: So we use Microsoft Teams, we use Engage, we use different departments,

00:04:55: use maybe different software as well and they use different hardware. We

00:05:00: have our computer rooms and we have our tablets and things like that so we want

00:05:05: to kind of maximize and get the most out of what we already have but then

00:05:11: focusing on the new. That's something I'm very interested in as well. You

00:05:16: mentioned AI. I think anybody that had me in biology class like oh yeah Mr.

00:05:21: Khrushchevsky and chat GPT is best friend right? So that's something I'm very

00:05:26: much interested in and it's something that I think is a necessity one way or

00:05:31: another whether you're focusing on dangers, what you need to be careful of

00:05:35: or you know the things it promises and you know the potential for innovation

00:05:40: and what it can contribute to learning and education. I think that's really

00:05:45: important and but those are fields that we need to be kind of open for some

00:05:49: trial and error. We don't really know what we're doing. Nobody really knows

00:05:54: what we're doing with the new stuff that's coming out there but it's stuff

00:05:57: we need to kind of get our heads around and create spaces where we can try

00:06:02: things out. So AI would be one of those but any other new software as well or if

00:06:08: we want to invest maybe a new hardware and focusing on I don't know certain

00:06:13: tablets or if even if it goes in the direction of virtual reality and things

00:06:17: like that in the future. Do you feel that if that were not to happen that

00:06:23: that would come to a very strong detriment of the school as a whole? Yeah

00:06:29: it's I think it's kind of a slippery slope where you know if you don't if you

00:06:36: don't invest kind of time and effort into these into that at first it just

00:06:42: seems like okay we're a school that doesn't have a real focus on digitalization

00:06:46: it's not it's not that bad we're still you know on the on the road it's not bad

00:06:50: right but it gets to that point maybe where and these are things that are

00:06:55: completely we can't foresee them we don't really know what that leads to.

00:06:59: There are schools out there that are really kind of going away from

00:07:04: digitalization it's more like your primary school education like younger

00:07:08: kids and things like that but here it's complicated because we start at with

00:07:13: students at a very young age and then all the way up to the upper secondary

00:07:18: level so we we need to kind of find a way to to make that work for all age

00:07:24: groups and and I I do think that at some point schools are gonna be forced to

00:07:32: deal with the topic of digitalization and that if if you don't just kind of take

00:07:39: it head-on it's gonna lead to a more intense struggle down the path I don't

00:07:44: want to say that I that would be like detrimental for a school makes it sound

00:07:48: really bad but it is something that we are forced to to deal with it right now.

00:07:55: Do you believe that everyone at the school truly recognizes the value of

00:08:00: what you're trying to accomplish with digitalization or do you feel that there's

00:08:03: some amount of resistance be it inside or outside that's hindering your progress?

00:08:09: I hope it gets to that point so I just started at the beginning of August most

00:08:15: of the different stakeholders at the school parents teachers students they

00:08:20: really don't even know what my role entails so week for week month for month

00:08:27: I hope to be able to communicate that one of the the channels is you know even

00:08:34: this this episode right I'll be speaking to a lot of the teachers and staff

00:08:38: next week as well and also just presenting you know the role of

00:08:45: digitalization and kind of some of the the larger I guess the larger aspects

00:08:51: that I want to be concentrating on the things that will be implemented in in

00:08:56: the coming years. I know with digitalization the the problem is that

00:09:01: there can be like very different views right it can you can polarize quite a

00:09:06: bit with digitalization and that's something I want to avoid at all costs

00:09:10: I think it is you know very important that parts of education that or let me

00:09:20: put it this way you don't need digitalization for all aspects of

00:09:23: education and I think some aspects are probably even better without

00:09:27: digitalization and you know especially as a biology teacher and you know going

00:09:32: out into nature right you know just kind of experiencing that with all of your

00:09:37: different senses and leaving digitalization out of it but there are

00:09:42: other aspects of digitalization that I think can enhance education so there's

00:09:47: kind of this you know foreign against and in the end when we agree on some

00:09:54: some kind of concept for digitalization it's important to understand when and in

00:10:01: which spaces digitalization can enhance education and in which spaces which

00:10:07: learning spaces should we purposefully not use digitalization software

00:10:16: hardware etc and so the concept is just as much about you know when we want to

00:10:23: use it as when we should not be using it. And what sort of spaces do you

00:10:29: specifically have in mind when considering what could really be very

00:10:32: helpful in to enhance said subjects or just anything. That's a good question

00:10:40: it's something that I also do not want to decide on my own it's something that I

00:10:45: think it's very important for the school community to kind of help make these

00:10:51: decisions I will give you some examples though at my last school building up a

00:10:57: maker space and having like several rooms where just it's kind of like anything

00:11:02: is possible right it's your it's your recording in your video studio it's your

00:11:06: 3d printers it's your robotic niches and you know maybe even your your sewing

00:11:13: machines and things like that right just anything that just helps in this you

00:11:17: know creative process that was that was great but then at the end that that was

00:11:23: kind of on the level of a space a room an actual room but at the same time we

00:11:28: need to think about well where do we where can we create those spaces in our

00:11:31: curriculum and how we're teaching and it doesn't mean that you you know get rid

00:11:37: of all of the different subjects and but it does maybe mean that we find a few

00:11:43: hours a week where we have kind of this space and we make time for more open

00:11:50: project based learning and I think that kind of creating these spaces in a time

00:11:56: sense and also creating the spaces like an actual digital spaces I think that

00:12:02: can enhance education you said that it's not only you that these decisions fall

00:12:08: on to and that essentially the whole school community gets to contribute how

00:12:11: does that how does that sort of take place how does that go into effect

00:12:16: oh another another really good question and a difficult question too I think

00:12:20: it's what's going to be the most important in the next coming months so

00:12:26: just before coming to this interview I was writing emails to five or six

00:12:31: different people in school management because I want to meet with them

00:12:36: personally every single one of these people so if somebody is in charge of

00:12:40: coordinating you know several different you know grade levels at our school then

00:12:46: then it's important for me to listen to them and listen to you know to find

00:12:52: out where are we right now and how would they like to move forward what's maybe

00:12:57: their vision of the future and after a lot of these talks then to kind of open

00:13:03: it up for for students and teachers at the school to kind of build a group an

00:13:09: ongoing group that meets regularly you know takes this input and thinks about

00:13:14: alright how can we use structures that already exist at this school which

00:13:18: which structures maybe need to be changed do we need new structures those are

00:13:24: kind of the questions that'll that'll be answered from you know groups of

00:13:27: students definitely want to talk to you know our student body prefix class

00:13:32: representatives you know and really give them a chance to give their input just as

00:13:37: you know teachers also need this this possibility and in my opinion also

00:13:42: parents other staff members maybe even like outside of the DSJ community I'm

00:13:48: thinking of putting together a think tank where you have kind of

00:13:52: digitalization experts from the private sector and public sector outside of

00:13:59: school so lots of different thoughts but I'm very much at the beginning of this

00:14:03: and hope to yeah start implementing some of these ideas and do you think that

00:14:09: everyone will sort of be open-minded to it or do you think that some people may

00:14:15: be somewhat misinformed about it or have an idea of a danger or have a

00:14:20: misinformed idea of the danger that it could pose so in in all forms of like

00:14:27: innovation and in something that is referred to sometimes as like change

00:14:31: management then you always kind of understand there's like a normal curve

00:14:37: that exists where you have this like 3% of your innovators and and about like

00:14:43: 10 to 12% of what you call early adopters and the this is a group of

00:14:48: people that if you get them convinced it's it's really important for for any

00:14:54: type of change and so also when talking about digitalization it is important

00:14:59: that the solutions you're coming up with that you can really convince this

00:15:04: maybe you know 15 to 20% but there's there's the rest of the eight 80% right

00:15:09: so even if you have you know 15 to 20% on board you're gonna start to get you

00:15:14: know others that just kind of adopt whatever new solutions are being

00:15:18: presented but you always so speak about like another like 20% on the other end

00:15:25: of the spectrum that are very critical and some of them just really don't want

00:15:32: to adopt anything new in the sense of digitalization anyway right and that's

00:15:37: also difficult that's always difficult I mean that's in any type of change so

00:15:41: these people will be there I think it's still important to hear them to let them

00:15:48: address like their critique to take it seriously to try to implement that into

00:15:55: the solutions but at the same time I'd still like to move forward because I do

00:16:01: kind of believe in some of the the promises that digitalization can

00:16:06: contribute in the sense of making education better one thing about

00:16:12: digitalization now this could come back to sort of whether it is thusful solely

00:16:18: on you but do you will it be on a more individual level where each teacher can

00:16:22: decide how they wish to integrate it in or will it be sort of like a mass scale

00:16:25: thing where all teachers are the very least the majority of teachers will sort

00:16:32: of have to find a way to integrate it in so there's there's more and more of a

00:16:38: focus in regards to education on individualized individualization so

00:16:45: kind of understanding the individual needs of students and I think this goes

00:16:51: for teachers as well so solutions that are very much kind of top-down and

00:16:57: forcing all students or forcing all teachers to to learn or to teach in in

00:17:04: one matter are something that just yeah that personally it's not what I see as

00:17:10: the solution that we're going for here so individualized solutions for for

00:17:17: learners for for the students in my opinion it also means we need

00:17:21: individualized solutions for teachers as well and one of the main aspects of the

00:17:28: the digitalization concept is improving the overall digital literacy so

00:17:35: regardless of where you're at as a parent a teacher a student not everybody's at

00:17:40: the same level and not everybody is necessarily trying to get to the same

00:17:45: level but if we create spaces that just help all of these different people take

00:17:52: that next step maybe slightly out of their comfort zone and into their

00:17:57: learning zone then I think there's going to be a lot of synergy effects and it's

00:18:01: going to be really good for the digitalization at the DSJ now you said

00:18:08: that for example in Germany there has already been a bit of a strong focus on

00:18:13: digitalization at the very least in the past few in the past year or so do you

00:18:18: are you sort of following attempt a template set by them or is there something

00:18:22: more of a personal thing that you're trying to adjust specifically to the

00:18:25: DSJ it definitely needs to address the specific situation context needs of of

00:18:34: the DSJ so I guess my background since I've just taught for so many years in

00:18:41: Germany and just kind of I guess followed the you know the politics of

00:18:45: education there that's where I'm coming from but being in the in the South

00:18:51: African context and just kind of also understanding I guess where digitalization

00:18:56: is at in South Africa maybe the needs of the private and public sector of South

00:19:02: Africa I think these are things that we need to address in that you know with

00:19:09: our digitalization concept at the same time there are there are doc you know

00:19:16: publications coming from Germany at kind of a national and state level making

00:19:23: suggestions for schools how to progress with digitalization and I think these

00:19:28: are very helpful and I think it's very helpful to look at schools that have

00:19:32: done a great job of this in Germany but also in South Africa and then to bring

00:19:38: this together and really have an individualized solution for our school

00:19:43: is there anything that you've sort of had to because I'm sure you have a lot of

00:19:48: for implementing this.

00:19:50: Is there anything you had to sort of put away

00:19:53: like that you had to dismiss as an idea?

00:19:55: For example, we've already talked about AI

00:19:57: and how you plan on implementing that.

00:20:00: But an example could be say virtual reality

00:20:02: and augmented reality.

00:20:03: Is that something that you feel we can implement

00:20:07: or is that something you've had to cast aside perhaps

00:20:09: due to pricing or certain other concerns?

00:20:12: - I guess there's maybe two examples that I have.

00:20:16: One of the things is that creating a participative process

00:20:21: where you can get everybody's opinions

00:20:26: and other people kind of on board and involved

00:20:28: that takes a lot of time.

00:20:30: So this moving very quickly

00:20:33: and getting a lot done in a short amount of time,

00:20:35: that's something that I've realized,

00:20:36: okay, that's not priority number one.

00:20:39: A lot of listening needs to go on

00:20:44: before we start implementing anything new.

00:20:46: The other thing is that,

00:20:48: especially 'cause we were talking about AI

00:20:51: and that's something in these first few weeks,

00:20:54: I haven't really been thinking about AI

00:20:57: and how we wanna use it or implement it in the school

00:21:00: for like a single minute

00:21:02: because we have so many structures in place right now

00:21:05: and we have so much potential with things like teams

00:21:08: and other software that we're using, like Engage, et cetera.

00:21:13: And this is software that we have so many colleagues

00:21:18: already using our students are using these platforms as well

00:21:22: and we need to concentrate on what we have

00:21:24: and kind of maximize the potential

00:21:27: before coming with just new, new, new and that sort of thing.

00:21:32: So that is, and it's not bad at all.

00:21:34: It was just kind of a realization that I had

00:21:36: in these first few weeks about how we need

00:21:41: to set our priorities.

00:21:43: - Speaking of priorities,

00:21:44: do you feel that your project or your goal

00:21:47: is a large priority at the school

00:21:49: or is there some amount that you have believed

00:21:53: that it could be focused on more?

00:21:55: - As a German international school,

00:22:01: the German language has an extremely high priority

00:22:06: at our school and as a school in South Africa,

00:22:09: there's other aspects that I just kind of see

00:22:12: have this priority, the academic excellence,

00:22:16: some of the different sports that are going on

00:22:21: at the school and things like that.

00:22:23: So things like digitalization or maybe more specifically

00:22:28: programming robotics and things like that,

00:22:34: I don't really see that they've had a real priority

00:22:39: they're not up there and the top.

00:22:41: I don't even wanna add top three, top five,

00:22:44: that's not our huge focus.

00:22:46: But I think it's important,

00:22:48: there's a lot of different competences

00:22:51: that students need to be successful

00:22:54: in so many different domains in the future

00:22:58: that are linked with digitalization.

00:23:01: And so I see kind of a shift right now

00:23:04: and I see kind of the school seeing

00:23:08: this problem or this challenge of on one side,

00:23:13: we're that German school, we need our students,

00:23:17: speaking German, we need to be sending them off

00:23:20: into the world with a competence level

00:23:24: that they can study abroad.

00:23:27: But at the same time, there's the need

00:23:30: to focus on digitalization.

00:23:31: So there's a shift going on right now

00:23:33: and it's gonna be really difficult

00:23:35: to bring that all together.

00:23:37: There's only so many hours in a day

00:23:40: where students are in a school.

00:23:42: So there's only so many priorities you can have.

00:23:44: So we need to bring it together

00:23:46: and create a lot of synergy effects.

00:23:48: - And that is an interesting point.

00:23:51: But so that would imply or this is more just a question.

00:23:56: When it comes to integrating this,

00:23:59: do you feel that they will as a result

00:24:01: be a difference between how much of effect this has

00:24:05: and say that English stream or the NSC, NSC is fake

00:24:09: or the German stream or the combi is fake?

00:24:12: - Something that I've already spoken

00:24:17: to some of our coordinators about

00:24:20: is how we can implement different solutions

00:24:25: that are gonna improve the digital literacy

00:24:28: of all of our students in both of our streams.

00:24:34: And that's something that's really important

00:24:36: that we have different offers where we know

00:24:40: every single student can take advantage of that offer.

00:24:45: And it's not just limited to one stream or another.

00:24:49: We even see kind of in the NSC stream in the later grades,

00:24:54: there's actually the possibility for them to focus

00:24:57: more on things like robotics and stuff.

00:25:02: It's almost, it's part of the curriculum.

00:25:05: Whereas in the German stream,

00:25:07: you don't even necessarily have these possibilities.

00:25:10: And so we need to find solutions

00:25:14: so that every single student at our school feels like

00:25:18: they are profiting from the work we're doing

00:25:22: in this realm of digitalization.

00:25:25: But it's why we also need to get it

00:25:27: into the classroom as well.

00:25:29: It can't just be the robotics classes taking place

00:25:33: at the same time as different sports after school.

00:25:37: We need to get it into our everyday schooling

00:25:41: so that every student has that feeling

00:25:45: that they can kind of put a focus on,

00:25:48: again, I'm using the word digitalization, right?

00:25:50: But this can be so many different things.

00:25:52: It can even be what's going on right here.

00:25:56: This is a podcast using this equipment.

00:25:58: This software, and there's a lot of other examples as well.

00:26:02: - And do you feel that every single student will,

00:26:08: that every single student will genuinely benefit

00:26:11: or do you feel that there'll be some groups of people

00:26:13: or some groups of individuals that may not be as inclined

00:26:17: to benefit from this integration?

00:26:19: And if so, how would you go about solving that

00:26:22: or addressing that?

00:26:26: - I think it's very important that every student

00:26:30: has the possibility to benefit from it.

00:26:34: There's gonna be, like I just mentioned now,

00:26:37: one of the ideas out there was how do we reach

00:26:39: every single fifth grader at our school

00:26:42: and really kind of teach them how Microsoft Teams works

00:26:46: so that they can kind of use the full potential

00:26:50: of this software.

00:26:51: But there's gonna be a lot of other offers out there

00:26:56: that are gonna also be based on choice.

00:26:58: And again, here, we don't wanna force people

00:27:01: into digitalization.

00:27:02: We don't want every single student

00:27:04: and every single teacher to have extra workshops,

00:27:09: extra training.

00:27:10: They all need to be experts in your Microsoft suite,

00:27:13: Excel, programming, robotics.

00:27:16: That's not how it works.

00:27:17: But they should have this possibility.

00:27:20: And more importantly, they should feel

00:27:23: like they had this possibility.

00:27:25: And I think that's the difficult part in this whole thing

00:27:28: is that when you talk to students and you ask them,

00:27:31: now, do you feel like you had the possibility

00:27:35: to set priorities and to really, I guess,

00:27:40: take on the digital aspects?

00:27:42: But at the same time, did you feel like you had

00:27:44: the possibility to say, hey, this whole digitalization stuff,

00:27:48: that's not my world.

00:27:50: I wanted to concentrate on other things.

00:27:53: And so hopefully we'll continue to kind of give them

00:27:57: the possibility.

00:27:58: But at the same time, create like a base level

00:28:02: digital literacy that all students need

00:28:06: to be successful in the future.

00:28:07: - So, and what I'm noticing as you talk is that

00:28:12: all of this is sort of in planning still.

00:28:14: And how, if it got to the stage of implementing it,

00:28:17: how would you go about sort of prototyping it perhaps?

00:28:21: Or maybe like, how would you go about essentially testing it

00:28:26: if this is the right approach?

00:28:28: - Yeah, another really good observation

00:28:31: and kind of question as well.

00:28:33: So I was able to kind of write my own job description.

00:28:37: There wasn't somebody before me, right?

00:28:39: So I'm that first person that has been given the chance

00:28:42: to kind of help coordinate and implement

00:28:46: digitalization at the school.

00:28:48: And so I had to kind of think like, well,

00:28:51: how is this gonna go?

00:28:53: How does this look in like three, four, five years?

00:28:56: And to think about it in cycles.

00:28:59: That was what was really important to me.

00:29:01: So some of the ideas that we would like to implement

00:29:05: that we might come up with in the next six months,

00:29:08: then you would have an implementation phase,

00:29:10: kind of a prototyping phase maybe a year later.

00:29:13: And then also these different solutions

00:29:17: need to be looked at critically.

00:29:20: And you need to kind of think about, okay,

00:29:21: is that serving kind of our educational purpose

00:29:25: as a school?

00:29:26: Is this helping us?

00:29:27: Do we need to change something?

00:29:29: Or was it a flop?

00:29:30: And it's really important in kind of an innovative phase

00:29:35: to be able to get rid of things that you wanted.

00:29:40: You put a lot of time into implementing something.

00:29:43: And if you realize it's just, it's too time intensive

00:29:47: or there's just not enough benefit for the stakeholders,

00:29:52: then you need to be courageous enough again to say,

00:29:56: all right, it's not working.

00:29:57: We're gonna try something else out.

00:29:59: And so I kind of see this as always like a three year cycle

00:30:04: that keeps going on.

00:30:05: The idea is now get them implemented in two years time.

00:30:10: And then, but at the same time,

00:30:13: every year we're gonna be coming up with maybe

00:30:15: new possibilities that will possibly implement

00:30:19: at a later stage and continue in cycles.

00:30:22: - This seems to be somewhat a lot of pressure for just you.

00:30:28: I mean, I do know that there are people

00:30:29: that you are getting like outside opinions from,

00:30:33: but do you feel that there,

00:30:35: is there other people that are also just as involved

00:30:38: as you are in this project?

00:30:40: And if not, do you feel that they should,

00:30:44: that there should be more involvement from everyone?

00:30:46: - So it might sound like that,

00:30:49: but on the other hand,

00:30:52: we have an incredible IT department, right?

00:30:54: This is like three people working full time

00:30:57: and they are in charge of so many different aspects

00:31:00: of our school.

00:31:01: They help out with everything from heating and solar,

00:31:05: all of our different hardware, software, security,

00:31:08: et cetera, et cetera.

00:31:09: So shout out to the IT department right now.

00:31:14: And then you just have a lot of different members

00:31:18: of our staff who are then in charge of engage

00:31:25: and helping the teachers and doing a teacher training

00:31:28: as well that goes for Microsoft Teams as well.

00:31:32: And then you have individual teachers

00:31:34: that are just even working based on their curriculum,

00:31:37: that's also like robotics and IT and things like that.

00:31:42: So there ends up being so many people at this school

00:31:46: that are kind of, I guess, helping with the digitalization

00:31:51: of the school, but there's just never been a concept.

00:31:57: There's, even then, I think maybe a lot of them

00:32:01: have had kind of some vague concept

00:32:03: in the back of their minds based on kind of the needs

00:32:06: that you're seeing in society,

00:32:09: but we've never written it down

00:32:11: and we've never really coordinated it

00:32:13: and put together kind of a plan for the future.

00:32:17: So that's where I come in,

00:32:18: but hours and hours of work and so much

00:32:23: has already gone on in the last decades even.

00:32:27: And that's all been done by other people.

00:32:31: - And you have told us about some of your previous projects

00:32:36: like that, Makerspace Lab that you talked about.

00:32:39: Is this sort of like to a similar scale,

00:32:41: is this a wider scale to a larger scale

00:32:45: than you would know that you've normally done?

00:32:47: And when, if so, are you sort of excited about that

00:32:52: or is there some amount of, I don't know,

00:32:55: how do you feel about that?

00:32:56: - So something like a Makerspace,

00:32:59: this is also something we're talking about right now

00:33:02: in this school and the money that we just got

00:33:07: from the last bazaar is going towards robotics

00:33:10: and the sciences and we're even considering redoing

00:33:15: a couple of rooms in this school

00:33:19: and maybe going in the direction of something

00:33:20: like a Makerspace, which is very exciting.

00:33:24: Now my role though is kind of the head of digitalization,

00:33:29: it is at the same time, it's also on kind of another level

00:33:33: and that's what's really exciting.

00:33:34: So I get to be part of those meetings

00:33:37: where we're talking about the potential of a Makerspace

00:33:40: and how could that really help,

00:33:45: help and sometimes I don't like the word,

00:33:47: there's so much excitement and fun in a Makerspace as well.

00:33:52: So any student who's gonna be in that room,

00:33:56: I'm excited for them and the possibilities

00:33:59: they're gonna have there, but at the same time,

00:34:03: kind of concentrating on an entire digitalization concept

00:34:08: and looking at the possibilities of really kind of

00:34:11: helping improve the digital literacy of hundreds

00:34:15: or even thousands of students and faculty.

00:34:18: That's a new challenge for me.

00:34:20: It's a position I've never been in

00:34:23: and that's something I'm really excited about.

00:34:26: - And about the digital literacy,

00:34:30: do you think this does sort of go back to a previous question,

00:34:33: but do you think it is in a very bad state right now

00:34:36: on average or do you think it's more, it's okay,

00:34:40: but you just wanna make sure it's as good as possible?

00:34:43: - Yeah, it's a tough question.

00:34:47: When you kind of look worldwide, digital literacy,

00:34:52: I think our students and faculty at this school,

00:34:57: in a general sense, they're quite privileged

00:35:00: and in situations where they're coming to this school

00:35:04: and just based on, I guess, their age and where they're at,

00:35:09: it's a pretty high level of digital literacy,

00:35:14: but that's so relative, right?

00:35:17: So what does that even mean for the individual person?

00:35:21: There's so many people that would just say,

00:35:23: well, yeah, well, that's not the case with me.

00:35:26: And that's what it's kind of about

00:35:29: is providing these possibilities,

00:35:31: regardless of where you're at,

00:35:33: regardless of how digitally, literally,

00:35:36: literate you would consider yourself

00:35:40: is providing possibilities to just take it up

00:35:43: to the next level.

00:35:45: And now that we've been talking about digital literacy

00:35:47: a few times, just, you know, this is also,

00:35:50: this is cyberbullying to fake news,

00:35:55: to using a keyboard, to using collaborative apps.

00:36:00: There's so many aspects that go along

00:36:02: with digital literacy.

00:36:04: - Now, I will admit, I am somewhat running out of questions.

00:36:09: Is there anything that you'd like to say

00:36:12: that perhaps I haven't called upon

00:36:15: or is there anything that you just feel the need

00:36:17: to mention before this podcast comes to a close?

00:36:24: - Yeah, tough call to even think about,

00:36:26: who's gonna be listening to this

00:36:28: and listening to those last words

00:36:31: that I'm putting out there.

00:36:34: I think for people who are excited about digitalization

00:36:40: and everything that's digital out there,

00:36:42: then hopefully it's just promising that,

00:36:46: hey, the school's taking this more seriously.

00:36:50: There are ways in the future to get involved,

00:36:53: but at the same time, it doesn't automatically mean,

00:36:56: you know, if you just, I don't know, sit around,

00:36:58: do nothing, you know, wait for some change,

00:37:02: you're not gonna be affected by that.

00:37:04: You're not gonna be able to take advantage

00:37:05: of the possibilities.

00:37:06: So you definitely have to, you know,

00:37:09: keep your eyes open and kind of see, okay, what's coming?

00:37:12: What's new in the school?

00:37:14: What's being implemented?

00:37:16: How can I take advantage of this?

00:37:18: And at the same time, for those who are listening to this

00:37:21: and maybe quite critical of this,

00:37:25: I'm a very optimistic, positive person.

00:37:28: So I look into the future of digitalization.

00:37:30: I see a lot of chances as well,

00:37:32: but along this way, I'm gonna try to make it clear

00:37:36: to everybody that at the same time, growing up,

00:37:41: I was the Boy Scout, you know, hiking through the mountains

00:37:45: and, you know, trying to build a fire, you know,

00:37:47: with, I don't know, just wood, my flint and stone.

00:37:51: And I really respect that aspect of growing up,

00:37:55: of education, you know, getting away from screens and apps,

00:38:00: focus on relationships between human beings.

00:38:06: And at a school, we are bringing a huge group

00:38:10: of young people together.

00:38:11: And one of our biggest chances is the, is, you know,

00:38:16: building on this group of people to concentrate

00:38:20: on things like communication, collaboration,

00:38:23: and other aspects that really profit from a group

00:38:29: of people working together,

00:38:31: where you don't need the digital tools so much.

00:38:34: So I love, you know, everything that's digital out there.

00:38:38: And I just, you know, like I said, with that Nintendo,

00:38:40: and I'm just, you know, there's just that little boy

00:38:42: inside of me that's really open, you know,

00:38:45: to trying out all of these new things,

00:38:47: but just really want to make it clear

00:38:51: that that other aspect, you know, of, I guess, like,

00:38:54: humanness that we need to keep in education,

00:38:58: that's just as important as well.

00:39:01: - Would like to thank you for your insight and for your time.

00:39:06: I feel that what you've shared with us is very interesting

00:39:09: and very, I think the average person,

00:39:12: especially at our school would find it very enlightening

00:39:15: to hear.

00:39:15: Yeah, thank you for your time, Hacker Jeffsky.

00:39:19: - Yeah, thanks for inviting me.

00:39:20: It was great, thanks.

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